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#1 Silent Bob

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 02:38 AM

This is going to be a long and lame discussion on leadership, so if you aren't into lameness or leadership, you can skip this post.

I had an interesting experience on Office tonight. It's nothing new, but the experience came full circle tonight and I felt like putting it down in writing.

I joined the T squad and they were getting their asses kicked. To their credit, they were up against some tough competition. Some of the CTs were Cinci, Coke, deadguy... Anyway, they, the Ts, were camping in the Projector Room area. As many of you know, camping as a T on office is an iffy strategy. It works half the time against decent competition, but up against good competition it doesn't. Either way, the current strategy of camping was not working. We had to try something new, but convincing the rest of the team to move is...difficult, to say the least.

When the CTs have momentum and are rushing hard, the best strategy to stop them is the Counter-Rush. You just rush them as they are rushing you. Now it doesn't always result in an immediate win. Most of the time the first rush or two results in a lot of deaths. But it scares the CTs from rushing as hard or at all the next round. It disrupts their momentum. That allows you to finally break out of camping and take the fight outside of the projector room area.

So I tried to convince my team to do this. Being that I wasn't an established player that round (ie: a player with a good ratio near the top of the list) they weren't inclined to listen to me. So I had to lead from the front, even if that meant on my own. So I rushed garage, and by rushed I mean went outside and tried to hold off the CTs, several rounds. The first time I was alone, but I got a few kills. The next few times I was still alone, but I was getting 3 sometimes 4 kills before I died. I was slowly moving up the ladder. After several rounds of that I was able to convince a good number of guys to hold garage with me.

We rushed out of the projector room area and sprinted towards the garage. We met the CT rush head on. We killed a bunch, but we all died. This is still going according to plan. However, as always, after a strategy does not result in a decisive win, your teammates are less inclined to listen to you. No one wants to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of the team. And especially not after dying for what seems like nothing.

The next round I rushed again with only a few followers, but just as planned, the CTs did not rush garage. They don't want to sacrifice themselves either. However, due to a lack of support, we could not hold it. We lost that round again. However, because the CTs did not rush and because my ratio had taken me to near the top of the player list, I was able to convince the team to help me hold garage. We only needed about a third of the team (5-6 guys) to hold garage. The rest could watch long hall and the hall with the 2 vending machines. We won the next round. And the next. And the next.

However, people tend to be sheep. When they see a sizable group (5) going one way they go that way, too. So sometimes too many people went garage and left the other side of the map undefended. However, my instructions had resulted in multiple wins in a row, so when I told them to cover the other side of the map, they listened and went back. We won again and again until the map reset. Sometimes it was really close, because the other team had really good players. But what we lacked in individual talent, we made up for in teamwork and strategy.

Now this isn't a brilliant strategy. Many people know this strategy. But convincing your team to follow that strategy is extremely hard (in pickup games anyway). It's called the Collective Action Problem (CAP). It infects all aspects of life. The majority of workers like the benefits that unions get them, but only a minority will strike with the union. The CAP in Counter-Strike is equivalent to everyone agreeing to rush office and then only 3 people actually do it. "If everyone else is rushing then I don't really need to. I don't want to risk getting shot early in the round." Well if 12 guys are thinking the same thing, the rush fails completely. So in order to prevent that from happening, you have to con your team into winning. And how you do that is another discussion.

I got lucky tonight. I could have easily lost the trust of my team if for some fluke reason the strategy failed early on. Then they would have reverted back to nature (aka camping) and we would have continued to lose. But I got lucky. No rogue CT managed to pull off an unbelievable streak in the first few rounds of "non-camping." So they trusted by judgement and we won. I, as an individual, am nothing special. The team knew what they had to do to win. I just had to trick them into doing it.

Edited by Silent Bob, 20 January 2007 - 03:42 AM.

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#2 monster

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 03:58 AM

You owe me 1 minute of your time, since you just wasted mine with this post.....
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#3 Silent Bob

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 04:16 AM

You owe me 1 minute of your time, since you just wasted mine with this post.....


Don't say I didn't warn you. It's ok, though. I'm not really expecting anything constructive to come out of this post. I just felt compelled to write that. If someone wants to talk about it, that's fine. I'm all ears. If you want to make one-liners, that's fine too. After all, this is BoSS.

Your minute's up now.
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#4 Halcomb

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 06:41 AM

way to go napolean.

office has at least 3 entry points, more if you count routes that don't cross.

strategy in cs is like playing battleship with a downe syndrome patient.

even if you implement flanking, a lucky SOB can take down 3 with a well placed shot.

the only strategy that works for css is hoping you take down one or more and the rest of your team does the same, rushing or not.
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#5 Mike2077

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 07:32 PM

Nice grammar though lol. Rushing T's almost always win on the office server. Which is usually why the score is T 55 - CT 16 or lower.
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#6 Silent Bob

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 07:51 PM

Well the strategy I talked about really isn't the point of my post. I'm not advocating one strategy over another (except for the futility of camping--most of the time). There are a lot of strategies that work in Office. I was more interested in the psychology behind getting a group of individuals to act collectively...like a team.

Edited by Silent Bob, 20 January 2007 - 07:52 PM.

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#7 onyx

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:10 AM

you are weird dood
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#8 Silent Bob

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:05 AM

Ok. The next thread I make I'll speak entirely in 1337 and it'll be about how noobs are gay.
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#9 Halcomb

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 03:54 AM

honestly, this op couldn't have been worse otherwise.

just start the post off with:

"hey, i'm going to waste your time with trivial bullsh*t." next time and we'll understand.
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#10 Silent Bob

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:33 AM

*EDIT* Nevermind. I'm going to let this thread die since it appears nothing constructive is going to come out of it. It appears I'm not on the same page with anyone. If you want to continue to feed the flames with petty insults, that's fine, but I won't be responding.

Edited by Silent Bob, 21 January 2007 - 04:53 AM.

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#11 Lesbian Dad

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:18 PM

if the CT's stopped camping, i would be happy.
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#12 Billy Pumper

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 09:07 PM

Nice grammar though lol. Rushing T's almost always win on the office server. Which is usually why the score is T 55 - CT 16 or lower.



unless me and someone worth a damn are sitting on the dumpster behind smoke. then everyone dies :muaha:
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#13 RogueAlly

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:26 PM

Billy with smoke is a b*tch. Not gonna argue that one. As for the topic of the thread. I appreciate it even if none of the other forum goers appear to. Honestly, strategy matters a lot in CSS and only those who are incredibly good at the game (uniquely skilled) or that don't actually understand whats going on, think otherwise.

Leading by a good example is a great strategy, provided you end up positive. People will listen if they see that you're getting kills doing it. If you had been dying without killing anyone, then they would have been less inclined to listen. They most likely were just thinking... "hey, he is getting kills... I want kills too! I'm going to go with him."

At any rate, good points and keep up the good work. Oh, and when you learn how to stop Billy and his damn smoke on the trash... teach me.
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#14 Aziz

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 08:29 AM

Damn, dude... You should go write one of those inspirational/educational books and pay people to read them...


And - Quote: "After all, this is BoSS" - wtf does that mean? You implying something?
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#15 Silent Bob

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 05:03 PM

Damn, dude... You should go write one of those inspirational/educational books and pay people to read them...
And - Quote: "After all, this is BoSS" - wtf does that mean? You implying something?


In all honesty, at the time I said that I meant that to have a negative connotation. I was suggesting simple-mindedness. I was a little miffed about the first few replies I got to my post, and in an immature move, I made a blanket statement about BoSS. I apologize about that now. That was my insecurity lashing out. I didn't really mean it to begin with. That was my subtle way of saying "screw you" without saying it directly. But either way, that wasn't fair to BoSS, and I admit that was a mistake.

EDIT: And thanks to those that have replied with constructive comments in the last few days. I don't mind if someone disagrees with me. I just don't appreciate replies like the first.

Edited by Silent Bob, 24 January 2007 - 05:07 PM.

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#16 Aziz

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:48 PM

Im sorry, man, but i didnt even read your first post.... i dont feel like wasting my time, because i can see its not worth it. So, good luck.
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#17 fadetoblack

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 12:11 AM

Wow some of you guys are harsh. If your not interested in the dude's post just ignor it and move on. No need to sit here and comment about him wasting your time because you are the one that decided to waste your time and read it and also reply.
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#18 SuHh

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 10:07 PM

haha nice job man... and if u do make a 1337 post... i will be forced to neuter u in the game as u are leading ur team with a rush... then u'll go WAYYYY down the list... :D
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#19 ghozy

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 11:19 AM

after all of those feedbacks i decided to read your post. thanks for taking time and writing a post like this. alas I'm a rogue player, i can't lead a team. so it didn't really help me.
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#20 ShLoNkY

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 11:27 AM

Although your post was useless, you did forewarn folks in the beginning of the post. By stateing that "afterall this is BoSS" I think he meant that there are a lot of useless posts here. :weee:

If he wanted to post this than fine. If you don't wanna read it then fine. No need to flame here.
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