38 replies to this topic

[RolloTomasi]

I'm gonna have to side with YouWereKilled on this one. I don't think its absolutely terrible, but I think it's annoying enough that we could without it.

For the record, I don't care which team I'm on, though I usually prefer CT. But just the idea of constantly having players being swapped back and forth is a little too destructive to the flow of the game, in my opinion. It doesn't take a lot of things into account and thus could actually stack teams rather than balance them (like if a really good player just joined who is 0-1, or whatever...) And then in order to balance out these mistakes, it has to continually shuffle players around. Teams have less incentive to work together and form a working strategy, as people are just being swapped every 2 or 3 rounds. It's a classic case of trying to do much. Just put more pressure on the admins to make sure the teams are fair, they know most of the regulars well enough to keep the very good players balanced out. I have noticed more balanced teams on Server 1 lately anyways, before this thing was implemented.

Just my two cents.

[Link2086]

As another note, after playing a while with the ETB today, I have to say that it seems a bit overzealous, swapping several people per round and constantly "changing its mind," so to speak.

Another unfortunate side-effect was that several plans (i.e. okay go garage next round) turned into absolute disasters after the ETB swapped a player to CT right before the next round, ruining the element of surprise (and setting the planners up for a slaughter).

In all honesty, while I've seen the ETB work wonders before, after seeing how it's been acting on the BoSS servers, I think that the server admins and players could do a better job balancing teams themselves, or with only very slight assistance from the ETB.

The reason I've seen it work well is because in smaller servers, it's relatively easy to strike up a simple team balance--you don't need to swap many players, nor swap them very often. However, in a server like 24/7 Office, which is often full to the brim and has people coming and going constantly, the ETB goes a little wild, switching people left and right. It's trying its best to preserve fairness, but when someone leaves and another person enters, the ETB has a lot of re-arranging to do to get things how it likes it.

So, despite my earlier endorsement of it, I would have to say that it's a bit too enthusiastic for a large server, and might be better suited for the lesser-used servers, or any servers with a smaller player cap. 16-on-16 matches are a bit too hectic for the ETB--I would recommend either toning it way down or just removing it all together and trusting the admins and players to keep things fair.

[Hoon]

yeah,. i don't really like ETB.. i just hate being thrown around the teams. :(

[Link2086]

Yet another note...

After further play with the ETB on, I realized something: What if you think the ETB is wrong? Is it okay to "override" it and "undo" a switch? If ETB puts you on CT, but CT then loses the next ten rounds, where they hadn't been doing as badly before, should you switch back to help balance the teams? Or does ETB have the "final say" on the matter?

Anyway, the more I'm playing with it on, the less I'm liking it. As I said before, it might be fine for a smaller server, but for 24/7 Office...

[youwerekilled]

With nameless, suzh, martha, don corleone, and fox as my witnesses, ETB switched me back and fourth from ct to t to ct to t to ct to t to ct to t..... 7 f*ckING TIMES TONIGHT! cleric said there was a way to make it so that etb only switches you once. this needs to be implemented. 7 times is ridiculous and totally distracting. once or twice is ok, but then i need to get into the groove. terrible....

Edited by youwerekilled, 10 August 2007 - 02:56 AM.

[DarkShadow]

the plugin may need tweaking or somethin, but YWK, just shut the fuck up already.

[Ezekiel]

I've only played for an hour or so with the plugin, but I do like it so far. While the Ts were on a winning streak still, the teams were still even as every round went down to just a few players alive on each team. Though I didn't see as many switches as you guys, there were maybe 10 people witched in an hour when I played.

[wyte mafia]

i get switched alot

[DarkShadow]

if enough of you have an issue with it, it will be removed.

[Florida_Funk]

I could care less about this, but it does get real old when everytime some non-boss player gets switched it's "OMG switch me back" and when you say f*ck off they go " this sucks I'm leaving" but other than that it's not all bad.

[wyte mafia]

i wasn't b*tching about it either, it really dose seen to even the teams.

[�HADOW109]

I used to play on servers using ETB, I would rather have it removed but if it remains, I wouldn't mind.

[teslatroNN]

I hate ETB because everytime I get 3:1 or higher kdr it switches me to a team where I am the only one who has a positive score on the team. So basically I am always stuck on the sh*ttiest team ever and unless I start just f*ckin around to get my score to 2:1 kdr the ETB doesn't switch anyone on my team. :\

[Tetrahydrocannabinol]

I haven't played much since the ETB was installed but I strongly dislike it for the following reasons:

- Punishes players who are doing well by switching them an obscene amount of times (edit: not always, but very often this does happen)
- Destroys the team concept...some teams (mainly CT I suppose) do strategize. Also it's more fun to have set teams and battle it out. Yeah balancing is necessary sometimes but this ETB seriously overdoes it
- Unless one team is slaughtering the other, it's okay for one team to be winning for a certain period of time before the other gets its sh*t together. ETB doesn't even allow this to happen and it nubbifies gameplay in the process.

I play CT more often than T but I still play T a decent amount so that's not the reason I am against this balancer. I pretty much agree with RolloTomasi that it ruins the flow of the game.

I know sometimes admins are not on, but usually they are.

Automated balancers like this never work well in my experience but maybe there's a good one out there.

Edited by Tetrahydrocannabinol, 13 August 2007 - 05:21 PM.

[Cleric]

I will throw my vote in to have it removed although honestly I think a lot of you are just whinning about it to whine about it.

My personal thoughts. (THC not picking on you but just using your responses since they seem to be similar/same as a lot of other people).

- Punishes players who are doing well by switching them an obscene amount of times (edit: not always, but very often this does happen)

Sounds vaguely familiar to an admin switching the number one player to the opposing team and then that player going back because they don't want to be on the losing side. Then having the admin do it again, you switching back again, and then being kicked for being a stat wh*re.

- Destroys the team concept...some teams (mainly CT I suppose) do strategize. Also it's more fun to have set teams and battle it out. Yeah balancing is necessary sometimes but this ETB seriously overdoes it

Normal strategizes for T's camp pj room, rush garage, rush office. Normal strategizes for CTs rush garage, rush front, we are getting pwned everyone for themselves. Everyone who has ever played office knows this. If you are implying that by switching players you are giving away the game plan, well the game plan has been given away since office became popular.

- Unless one team is slaughtering the other, it's okay for one team to be winning for a certain period of time before the other gets its sh*t together. ETB doesn't even allow this to happen and it nubbifies gameplay in the process.

Hmm well I agree with half of this. Mainly because ETB balances by kdr and not by team wins. So a team can be winning everyround and ETB can still be in effect (like Ez said in his post). What you are implying is that it is okay for one team to have all the good players and kick ass before it naturally balances out (very rarely does this hapeen without admin interference, although some players do switch to try and help)

[Link2086]

Normal strategizes for CTs rush garage, rush front, we are getting pwned everyone for themselves. Everyone who has ever played office knows this. If you are implying that by switching players you are giving away the game plan, well the game plan has been given away since office became popular.

I'd have to disagree a bit there. Just last night, we were trying out some new strategies on CT--breaking into squads, attempting distractions, and other such things. We also tried some different stuff on T as well. So I wouldn't say that it's impossible to have a fresh strategy.

[Cleric]

I'd have to disagree a bit there. Just last night, we were trying out some new strategies on CT--breaking into squads, attempting distractions, and other such things. We also tried some different stuff on T as well. So I wouldn't say that it's impossible to have a fresh strategy.

Regardless of how you go about assualting and rescuing the hosties you are still assualting and rescuing the hosties. There are only two entrances into T spawn. So you are planning to either go through one, the other one, or both. Unless you are implying that you planned with your team to noclip through the longhall wall.

[Mike2077]

Unless you are implying that you planned with your team to noclip through the longhall wall.

Godammit, tell everyone why don't you....

[Link2086]

Godammit, tell everyone why don't you....

Seriously, way to ruin our master plan, Cleric.

Now if we could only find a way to turn on noclip...

Anyway, while it's true that there are only two entrances to T-spawn, the two are rarely guarded exclusively. You won't often find the Terrorists split evenly between each entrance, because that just leaves them too vulnerable to nades and the like. So yes, there are only two "ways in," but that's simplifying it a bit too much, IMO. That's kind of like saying that there's only two ways to play Counter Strike -- ranged weapons and melee weapons. Sure, it's true, but it's oversimplified.

Also, I normally don't try to beat the hostages into following me. They tend to do that of their own accord.

Edited by Link2086, 15 August 2007 - 10:44 PM.